Archive for January, 2013
As mentioned in a previous article, there is a level of vitriol and real-world threats of violence that cannot be allowed. Even in the war of words between reasonable people and the walking pleas-to-emotion at Freethoughtblogs and Skepchick, a line of decorum exists.
Once again, the line has been crossed.
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An amazing set of events coming to light long after this stupid little saga has been put to bed. (sort of)
It seems our favourite little victim may have been the recipient of not one, but two offers of “come up to my room” requests .
Rebecca Watson created a YouTube video talking about a conference she attended as a speaker in Dublin Ireland with like-minded skeptics.
RW expressed her gratitude to those whom she shared stories with post-conference at the hotel bar which included people unrelated to the speaking panel. Watson makes a claim, or several claims for the events preceding her departure from the hotel bar.
“Thank you to everyone who was at that conference who engaged in these discussions outside of that panel you were all fantastic. I loved talking to you guys. Um, all of you except for the the one man who um, didn’t really grasp i think what i was saying on the panel because at the bar later that night actually at 4 in the morning we were at the hotel bar 4am i said “you know i’ve had enough guys, i’m exhausted i said im going to bed” so i walked to the elevator and a man got on the elevator with me and said “don’t take this the wrong way but i find you very interesting and i would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee? “
Um, just a word to the wise here guys, don’t do that. Um, you know, ah, i don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable. But i’ll just sorta lay it out that I was a single woman you know in a foreign country at 4am in a hotel elevator with you, just you, and ah don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after i finished talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable that men sexualize me in that manner. So, ya, but everybody else seems to get it. “
ElevatorGATE became the hot topic of discussion and Rebecca Watson milked this for all it’s worth. Her talks at conferences now included the dreaded elevator incident and a false proposition that women less safe in the skeptic community.
One main point i’d like to bring up here is Rebecca’s claim that one particular man didn’t really grasp what she was saying on the panel.
This is a suggestion that she knew he was aware of her talk whilst on the panel.
This in itself creates further questions.
How does she know the creepo-man was versed and up to speed on her anti-creepo speech? Did she conduct a role call for all those present at the bar?
ELEVATOR DATE #1
Prominent YouTube vlogger DPR Jones talks about his ‘upstairs invitation’ to Rebecca.
I’ll tell you where i was. I was talking to Rebecca Watson in a bar in Dublin until about 2-2:30 in the morning at which point i suggested to her that we go back to my room in order to do a blogtv program. Ah, we left the bar together, we got in an elevator together she came to my hotel room and we did actually do a blogtv broadcast. Aron turned up about 10 minutes late. And ah, he was there as well. um, but what pisses me off is this.
I see Rebecca Watson as playing a professional victim and i do not believe for one moment that she is in the slightest bit concerned about whatever threats that she may or may not have received of which obviously i cannot prove that she has or has not. But, if it really were the case that she felt so troubled so traumatized so uncomfortable at these conferences, why the fuck does she still carry on, going to them endlessly and get on stage and give speeches in which she makes light of these threats. Look at the speeches she gives. She’s laughing about it. Oh you should see the amount of emails i get where people say they want to rape me and oh there are others saying i’m too ugly to be raped. She’s not seriously threatened by this. She’s making a profession out of being a victim and that is what the problem i have with her is. I do not believe for a moment that she’s seriously troubled. And this idea that she’s got to wonder around conferences in sort of like some buddy way. And who’s she wondering around with? Surly Amy or someone like that? Not a security guard, not a police officer. If these threats were real or if she took them as real she would not be behaving in the way that she is. She is outrageously playing the victim and i have no sympathy for it.
ELEVATOR DATE #2
So now,.. Mr Creepo-Guy dashes off into the shadows and follows Becky to the hotel elevator and corners her in a tight spot and politely asks if she’d humour his request for coffee.
Not bad! Two propositions, both leading to an upstairs hotel room (not hers). The first offer was to co-star in a live drunken blogtv broadcast and the second, as we understand it was an invitation by an unknown man, later described as creepy, for coffee.
Ms Watson posted a YouTube video days later which i partly transcribed above.
Breaking down the alleged ‘creepo’ convo i can’t help but think his intentions were far from the interpretation RW offered on her video to justify her concerns of being sexualized.
“Don’t take this the wrong way….”
This should be seen as a preface to suggest to RW not to assume the worst with his following statement. But of course RW immediately made up her mind no matter what EG was to say next, it must be interpreted in the worst possible light.
“but i find you very interesting…..”
Far from any form of sexualization, objectification or creepiness IMO. Substitute it with “sexy”, “cute”, “pretty”, “sweet”, “fuckable” i’d say Becky has some concerns.
“and i would like to talk more.”
Talk. Converse. Chin wag.
Talk more? Does this suggest they engaged in conversation at an earlier time? Would this suggest EG may not have been unknown to Becky prior to his offer for coffee?
“Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee? “
Nothing to add here. It’s pretty straight forward.
One might argue these two scenarios are of a similar nature. So why was Becky creeped out by Elevator Guy and not Mr Jones’ offer?
Relying on the conversations scribed above it would appear Watson was already somewhat acquainted with Mr Jones but not the elevator guy even though he suggested they talk more, which can be interpreted as further conversation as opposed to their first conversation.
DPR Jones suggests to RW they head upstairs to participate in a live blogtv broadcast. This plan put forward for consideration by DPR Jones was done (perhaps in the company of others) at the hotel bar.
Elevator guy’s proposal as understood by RW’s recount occurred in the confines of an elevator.
Rebecca Watson received some backlash for a stupidly worded sentence which became the talking point on the online atheist community.
Um, just a word to the wise here guys, don’t do that.
Don’t do it to her? Don’t do it in elevators? Don’t do it at conferences? Don’t do it ever?
Surely this sound piece of advice applies to women too? Has RW declared herself to be the grand poobah dictator of behavioral etiquette among adults in social environments?
Recent speculation online entertaining the idea poor DPR Jones may be fingered as Elevator Guy.
A member of Atheist Ireland fills in the gaps with 3 blogs published just days after the event.
Derek Walsh is a fairly active member of Atheist Ireland and played a role in some part by organizing or aiding the organizers in setting up the scheduled conference which was held at Dublin’s Alexander Hotel.
Derek’s blog can be found here.
DW blogged about his experience at the event which began (for him) on Thursday June 2nd 2011 (evening?) with a pre-conference gathering and dinner with select members and visitors who would later participate in panel discussions. This blog entry finishes with a reference to the time being 3:30am Sunday morning June 5th 2011, at which point Mr Walsh drags himself away, presumably going home for the final time.
After getting home, I briefly watched Rebecca Watson, DPR Jones and AronRa live drunk vlogging but decided that enough was enough and I should get some sleep. Saturday was going to be a long day…
This puts the drunken LIVE vlog session starring Rebecca Watson, AronRa and Mr DPR Jones at some time in the early hours of Saturday, 4th June, 2011. Mr DPR Jones recalls this broadcast at about the same time of day. Even though DPR was did not specify the date of the live broadcast, Derek was able to place it neatly in the dateline. No argument there.
…and makes comments related to the panel discussion titled “Communicating Atheism” in which Rebecca Watson participated along side AronRa, Tom Melchiorre and Richard Dawkins. This panel discussion took place Saturday afternoon.
The first “Elevator date” occurred at 2:30am Saturday morning dated 4th June 2011. This hotel room “blogtv” date was conducted the night/morning before Rebecca Watson took to the stage to talk about whatever the heck she talked about.
The second “Elevator date” occurred at 4:00am Sunday morning dated 5th June 2011. This event took place after Watson’s panel discussion, which places the creepo-guy incident the following night.
So what’s the punchline? WTF did i waste an hour writing this blog? Um, just a word to the wise here guys, if you’re going to invite the Bexter up to your room, make sure you’re as famous as fuck, run a blogtv channel and have plenty of booze. Fuck the coffee okayish?
Atheism Plus prides itself in providing a ‘safe space’ concealed far far away from insults, gendered slurs, ableism, the privileged and normal folk.
Let’s have a look at some of the regular posters on the super safe forum.
I’d like to introduce you to a vile little piglet that assumes the identity The_Laughing_Coyote.
“Unless you’re just referring to this forum, in which case fuck off. THIS is OUR space.”
“I don’t give a single dry fuck about your ‘dissenting opinion’.”
“I invite you to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.”
“And while you’re at it, please stop jacking off to women in porn. Fuck you.”
“And you quoted REVELATIONS to talk about how peaceful your religion is? Go fuck yourself.”
“Jesus fuck. Calm down. And following that go fuck yourself.”
“Fuck you. Fuck you so hard you dirty condescending asshole.”
“FUCK OFF YOU PATRONISING CONDESPLAINING TONE POLICING BAG OF” (Mod edit: redacted) .
“So what in the name of fuck are you trying to argue, you derailing fuckhead?”
“Fuck your passive-aggressiveness, you shitpickle. You make me sick.”
“I say he can fuck right off back to where he came from.” (To another planet?)
“I say you’re full of shit, Wicknight, and you can take your tone policing and your self-righteous stance and fuck right off out of here.”
“Go fuck yourself you smug, smarmy, stupid asshole.”
“Fuck you, fuck your outdated patriarchal views on marriage, and FUCK your claims that you’re ‘not a misogynist’ with a bloody chainsaw. You’re revolting.”
A non-apology? “You know what, if i truly did offend you or marginalize you, then i TRULY AM SORRY, and i TRULY DID fuck up, if that is indeed the case. But fuck you very much at the same time for playing politics with someone’s sincere words.”
“READ WHAT PEOPLE ARE FUCKING SAYING TO YOU. You aren’t fucking wanted here. You are UNWELCOME. If you were a decent person, you’d take the hint and fuck off.”
“I’m not buying it. Period. Fuck off.”
“Why don’t you just fuck off you tiresome dipshit?”
“I will not stand here while this privileged human fucking URINAL tells me that the value of my life is just a pathetic emotional appeal. I WILL NOT. You fucking hear me mods? I will not stand for this. I will not be civil either. John M is …”
…and you get the gist of it.
The_Cussing_Coyote is a seasoned member at the Atheism Plus forum with up around 760 posts.
By reading his trashy self indulgent posts i counted not less than 135 posts directly insulting other members, in most cases because of either a simple disagreement or as a response to tone-policing.
I am amazed by the frequency this shit slinger spits out his verbal creativity. It works out to an average of one insult per day.
Try this in meat space Coyote and you may end up with a bloody nose almost every time.
So, is Atheism Plus a safe space? Fucken oath it is.
Atheism Plus is gifted with a speck of cyberspace which is far removed from what most of us know as the real world.
Several more cyber muppets also fall into the category of “Twinkie eating armchair activism ” laced with violent and sexual expletives whilst claiming to take offense to tone policing. This sort of behaviour is not only condoned by the moderation team at “Camp Snowflake”, but practiced also.
I am delighted to introduce you to a long time player of the 13th Reich of mod-policing,
Please welcome, ischemgeek.
“ERM, no. You can’t willpower your way past bronchospasm. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, you ableist fuckwit.”
One must ask what these bundles of joy are so angry about. The good news is we’ve been granted a gift from the gods as it were, for providing us a space to marginalize the potty mouths and keep them nicely and tightly segregated from the rest of the internets.
Hooray for Atheism+ Hip Hip!